As CSO and Head of Trust Engineering & Data Science, Vijaya is responsible for Information Security and Trust Technology to protect Airbnb's community and platform. Vijaya was named as one of the Top 25 Women in SaaS for 2018, and Top Revolutionary Women in Security 2019.
Vijaya Kaza has more than 20 years of broad executive leadership experience having led Engineering, Product Management, Information Security and Data Science organizations ranging startups to large companies both in Enterprise and Consumer spaces. Prior to joining Airbnb, Vijaya was the Chief Development Officer at Lookout Inc., a SaaS cybersecurity startup for the post perimeter world, and Senior Vice President of Cloud Products & Engineering at FireEye. At FireEye she built the company's SaaS offerings while transitioning the traditional on-premise technologies to the cloud. Prior to FireEye, Vijaya served for 17 years in multiple executive and leadership roles at Cisco.
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Michael Coates:
So thanks
everyone for joining another edition of CISO to CISO
webcast, I'm your host, Michael Coates, and
we're super excited today. Today, we are going to be
speaking with Vijaya, who is the CISO at Airbnb and has
an amazing background that we're going to talk
through. But thanks so much for spending time with us
today Vijaya.
Vijaya Kaza:
Oh, of course.
Thanks for having me on the show. Great to be here.
Michael Coates:
Awesome. Awesome.
Yeah. We've got a lot of great topics that we're
going to dive into. And this podcast or webcast is being
brought to you by Altitude Networks. I co-founded
Altitude Networks just a few years ago after leaving
Twitter. And very quickly, we focus on data security of
the cloud, specifically cloud collaboration, platforms
like G Suite, Box, etc.. As I know from my own personal
experience, your data in those platforms can be shared
in the wrong ways by accident or malice, and we've
built a solution to protect that enterprise scale. So if
you're thinking about onboarding, identification of
sensitive documents so they are not shared the wrong
way, third party apps, etc., we are your solution. Check
us out at altitudenetworks.com. And with that, let's
dive in. So Vijaya, you have a pretty impressive
background. Airbnb is an amazing place. I can attest
I'm a super host as well and love the platform. But
you've been at Lookout as a Chief Development
Officer. You've been at FireEye and Cisco. Tell us
about your journey on how you ended up at Airbnb in the
CISO role. Is that what you always aspired to or did you
take twists and turns along the way?
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah, happy to. How
much time do we have exactly? So let me let me get into
the details. All of my life prior to my current role, I
wasn't security, but one hundred percent on the
product side. My involvement in security really started
at Cisco. But I led product development organizations
for over 17 years and I started this will date me but
really, really early on with fixed firewalls. And and
since then, those three generations of firewalls where
this was all before even Cisco had a dedicated security
business unit. So this is that old. But the fun part
about my role at Cisco is that it really gave me an
opportunity to work on different products that Cisco had
in terms of the overall security portfolio and doing
something different every couple of years or so. And so
focusing on everything from hardware to software,
different software, up and down the stack, OS level to
everything in between to front end management, so
covering the whole gamut of the products as well as the
different types of things during my time there. All of
that eventually led to me meeting the end product
development for the entire billion dollar security
portfolio there. And that included all of the firewall,
VPN, IPS, next generation firewalls, and so forth, the
complete alphabet suite, as you can imagine.
Vijaya Kaza:
But that all that
meant was that it was really, really an opportunity to
experience large scale, not only from our product
portfolio, a revenue standpoint, but also leading large
organizations with hundreds of people. And even cooler,
from my perspective, was the opportunity to have a front
row seat, in terms of looking at acquisitions and
acquisition integrations that were coming in. And just
to give you an idea, during my time there within
security itself, we had about 20 acquisitions at that
time. Right. So it was like I was at the same place. But
all these companies were changing around me and lots of
cultures and lots of things coming together. So it was
really fun experience. And I got a chance to maybe be
involved in a couple of those acquisitions as well for
integration standpoint. So after completing that 17 year
long MBA program at Cisco, I figure I've had enough.
I need to go expand into something else. That's what
I moved to FireEye, so I was the senior vice president
of Cloud Products and engineering specifically focused
on the cloud portfolio responsible for their P&L, in
terms of all things in cloud, or things that are
transitioning from on prem to cloud. So these are
malware sandboxing, web security, email security, next
generation SIEM, next generation SAO platform that they
had. So that was a really cool experience, and also
getting to know more from a practitioner standpoint.
Imagine being in the picture and really understanding
the whole threat landscape and trying to tell what's
really cool and unique experience. Then, of course,
there was the itch of experiencing a startup, being in
the valley don't work at a startup, what good are
you?
Vijaya Kaza:
So I went to U Cal
and then to focus on another aspect of security, newer,
emerging and growing thread of that surface, more on
mobile devices, very fully SaaS security products, cloud
native, cloud first type of delivery. And as the chief
executive officer or CTO in other organizations, as it
is called, all technical functions and its engineering
infrastructure side, and also actually had a chance to
have a CISO, information security reporting to me,
that's kind of rounded out of my experiences and led
to ultimately the role that I have at Airbnb here. And
here I have the double exciting gig, I would say, of
both the traditional information security as a CISO, as
well as building the trust technology, which is covering
all of the fraud risk, online offline safety of those
types of things.
Michael Coates:
Wow. It's
really fascinating to see the different journeys that
people take to the CISO role. You see some that are like
security consulting heavy, you see others that are
almost from a legal and compliance standpoint. And you
very much have a product and engineering centric
background, which I think is really refreshing and makes
a lot of sense also being in tech companies. It seems
like being able to exercise that engineering capability
in your security objectives is probably worked out
pretty well for you.
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah, definitely. I
couldn't have planned it better. I mean, just timed
very well.
Michael Coates:
Yeah, I like it.
Sometimes you look back on things like, was that really
planned all that way? Because it sure worked out
perfectly.
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah, it looks
great, but none of that was planned.
Michael Coates:
Yep. Yep.
Definitely. Definitely. Well, very cool. And let's
see so each time when we hold one of these webcasts, we
virtually go somewhere in the world. So tell us a little
bit about where we are and why we picked this location.
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah, this is
Alaska. I don't know exactly which parts are which
pictures you pick, but you picked some amazing
sceneries. It was one of the best vacations that I had,
I think back in two thousand five, something like that.
It's been a while. But obviously, you know, the
scenery is breathtaking. And anywhere you look around,
you don't have to try to see some magnificent and
spectacular. And so it's pretty amazing. But the
thing that actually stands out for me is the, besides
the beauty and all of that, the vastness of Alaska, the
openness of the nature around you just sort of puts you
in a frame of mind that you just realize how small you
are in this universe, it grounds you, and it's
really, really soothing and meditative in a very unique
way. And thankfully, it's not really all that
commercialized or spoiled by lots of tourists, at least
back in 2005 and how it is now. So it really has a very
calming effect, especially after this. Everybody is
cooped up in their homes during this time. I think once
all of this is over and going to a place like this can
be very, very freeing, I think.
Michael Coates:
I agree and I
think we all need that cliche saying that breath of
fresh air. And I don't know about you, but I've
actually found some of my best security ideas come when
I stop working and I leave like that normal heads down,
focus on whatever is around you and suddenly your mind
gets that freedom to wonder, and sure we shouldn't
be working, we're supposed to be taking time off,
but suddenly you have that aha moment. Like, I jot that
down and go back to enjoying the world around you. So
one thing that you mentioned when you were talking a
little bit about your current role in Airbnb, which I
think is fascinating and is a bit unique to companies in
Silicon Valley, is that combination with trust and
safety in doing some of the engineering for that. Tell
us a little bit about how that's different from like
the classic CISO role and what trust and safety means in
the way that you're involved.
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah, definitely. On
the trust and safety side, it's really the way to
think about it, it's all about detecting mitigating
fraud and safety issues on the platform. So says
you're being an Airbnb client, you know this very
well, if you look at the user journey and the beginning
of their journey on the platform right at the time of
the account creation, sign up, log in all the way to
making a reservation or making a listing to post trip
aspects, everywhere along the journey, there are aspects
that we need to look into from a safety fraud risk and
all of these angles. Just to give an example, when I
talk about online risk free trip or even unrelated to
trips in general, you know anything about fake accounts,
compromised accounts, KTOs, brought us a big problem in
all platforms like this. Then moving into the content of
the platform itself, anything about inappropriate
content, the reviews or the listings themselves, then
looking into all of the scams, spams, harassment,
discrimination type of activities between guests and
hosts and really watching for phishing campaigns and any
activity that people try to take, transaction, co-op
platform, all of those types of things, and then into
the traditional financial fraud, if you will, credit
card related, chargeback related. Those are classic
ones, right. So we cover all of that. Plus the unique
thing about Airbnb when it comes to real world
experiences, because you're actually going and
staying in someone's house or letting the stranger
come and stay at your place, the aspects related to
property damage, personal safety, anything related to
try to solve all of the signals that are necessary for
that, to identify and prevent those sorts of activities
and then post-trip, about fake reviews, fake names all
of those.
Vijaya Kaza:
So all of this put
together. And ultimately you are trying to defend
against bad actors and provide some comfort and trust
and confidence to the good users on the platform without
impacting that good user experience. Right. So we rely
90 percent of what we do on the merit of the eye, with
the heavy emphasis on data science. And then from there,
we use other types of mechanisms and other things,
through agents to really put a holistic view around all
of this and try and detect mitigate and provide users
with really good experience. But that is what the trust
and safety side does. On the security side, of course,
it's a more traditional information security from
everything from production security to enterprise
security, governance, risk, all of those aspects. But
thankfully, the good thing about this organization is a
very security and engineering oriented organization as
opposed to compliance oriented infosec organization. So
it works really well putting those two pieces together
and especially with my background.
Michael Coates:
It's an
organization that I think when many people get into
security, they don't necessarily immediately
associate it because it doesn't exist in all
industries. I mean, you have you have similar
functionalities in like the financial industry around
detection of fraud, but it's very much, very much
removed, you would say, from classic security teams,
possibly because of just the size and scale of those
companies. But in the high tech companies, you see these
trust and safety teams and user services. You see them
in many of the companies. So Airbnb, Twitter had these
Facebook has these, Uber, Lyft, et cetera, all because
of kind of what you mentioned. Like, you need this
element of, well, just like the name says,
trustworthiness with the platform and the people you
interact with. From my perspective, it creates this
really interesting alignment because our security
thinking works well to help tackle these problems. But
it's also mindshift. And when you obviously know
well, because it's not as black and white, it's
shades of grey. And when does someone cross the line of
being actually bad or malicious versus not? And
that's a tricky thing for some people to wrap their
heads around.
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah, it's very
interesting because, you know, while both roles have the
same type of goals that keep bad actors out and protect
the good users, the mechanics are very, very different.
So that's why there are two independent
organizations, yet we bring them together with the hope
of connecting the dots and providing the synergies. So
it's really unique. Yeah.
Vijaya Kaza:
I love that
you're using the data science approach because the
classic way it's to throw tons of humans and slow
things down, which is the antithesis of what we want to
do in a fast moving tech company. So any sort of
automation and data science that can be provide enough
accuracy really makes sense, is a good strategy. And
I've seen that from my understanding, with lots of
other tech companies that are trying to be more
progressive in that space.
Vijaya Kaza:
At that scale,
obviously. I mean, there's nothing else works. I
mean, you cannot win this problem just by human
intervention. So clearly.
Michael Coates:
Very interesting.
Let's see, so I would be remiss, maybe not remiss,
ignorant to ignore the reality of the world we are in.
We are doing these events virtually not that I would
have had the budget to fly us to Alaska. I wish I could,
but we're all remote around the world because of
this wild time we're in with Covid with the change
to work from home. And one thing that it's certainly
done, in addition to letting us work on our pajamas and
cutting commute times, it's caused us to really
rethink security. We built security for, at least a few
years ago, the classic in the office, big perimeter, bad
people out, good people in thinking, which we know has
crumbled over time, I think everyone realizes you
can't just do the perimeter strategy, but I think
this is just fast tracked. So how are you looking at
this change in how you're prioritizing security for
your organization or what do you see the industry doing?
Do you think that different subsections are rising in
importance and others falling because of this massive
change?
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah, this is a
really interesting topic. On one hand, it feels like,
you know, there has been an overnight shift and
everybody's working from home and how do we cope
with it. But in reality, as we said, this has been
happening for a while and we are just excavating things
now. Right. The trend of dissolving enterprise
perimeters and people working from anywhere, with the
mobile and cloud taking off, that has been there for a
while now. All we are doing is maybe we are changing the
images of offices, moving to coffee shops and beaches
with people working on kitchen tables, in garages and
all that type of thing. Plus, it's obviously
becoming a more permanent phenomenon for many, many
companies as well. So it's mainly exploration. But
it's an interesting question that how does it change
in terms of which technologies are winners and losers?
If you think about the broad security industry and how
the industry is growing, even with the pandemic and the
economic impact, depending on which numbers you trust,
if it seems like it grows at anywhere between 6 to 12
percent, there's a lot of opportunities for a lot of
companies and a lot of technologies to really take
advantage of that. So I think it'd be good to and
interesting to double click and see which ones actually
have reality FIs, which ones are winners and losers from
that perspective. It's funny for me to talk about
this one, especially on the how given how long I have
done network firewall development in my entire career.
Vijaya Kaza:
But I think
that's a great place to start, right? Clearly with
us, with all of the boundaries being erased, the
enterprise network firewall, I think it's an easy
one to start with. There is no way, in this new world,
that is clearly there's no reason for this type of
protecting the boundaries and technology puts up these
boundaries to exist. So call it borderless, post
perimeter, so many names you don't trust. Depending
on whose language you use. But I think that type of
architecture where you are looking at security and
assuming zero trust is here to stay, that architecture
is clearly a winner. So any company, any technology that
supports the type of architecture I think is clear cut
to begin with. What does that mean? Will enterprises
stop buying firewalls and starting tomorrow or what
happens? Right. That's a good question. I don't
think tomorrow all of a sudden everybody stops buying
them. But at the very least, I believe I strongly
believe that people will think really, really hard in
terms of figuring out where they want to make these
investments, because as we talked about, if the trend
has accelerated and even the companies that haven't
looked at moving to cloud are not looking very seriously
to migrate to cloud, if you are looking to invest in the
firewall space, obviously you want to stop, think and
see which what's the new way of doing this? What
technologies would be most appropriate to do that? Do
you agree with that? Michael, what are your thoughts on
that?
Michael Coates:
Yeah, the the
securing of the office perimeter. I agree that will I
think that will totally, totally fall. The the one thing
that does pop into my mind is a big challenge is a lot
of the existing security controls, at least for network
monitoring, detection of compromised end-points. A lot
of that did fall on the ability to monitor network
traffic. And that's one area where I'm really
interested on what will happen, because you could have
everybody full of tunnel VPN, but that's a pretty
expensive cost and you're going to have some
interesting delays and even more cross traffic. But if
you don't do that, if you just split tunnel, then
you lose the visibility to do that inspection for
compromise. And so on some regard, you see people
pushing for endpoint agents to try and meet that demand.
But do we really want yet another endpoint agent? I
mean, I kind of got I told my security teams at Twitter
that you get like one, maybe two total and because
somebody else's IT's got one. Like, we can't
have six endpoint agents on these devices. And then for
my world now at Altitude, I know that well endpoint
agents are fine, but when somebody goes after your cloud
data, BYOD, or contractor, well, then all that's out
the window, too.
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah.
Michael Coates:
So there's a
lot of things up in the air.
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah, no, I
absolutely agree. So if VPNs are a thing of the past and
what's actually replacing that? What is the mode of
doing secure access in this new world? That's an
important question. So if the days of having access
established once and be done, those are gone. Clearly,
the world is now moving towards more contextual access
based on different aspects of identity. People have
talked about identity being the new perimeter, but I
don't think it's just identity. So it's a
combination of identity, devices, device posture. All of
those contextual elements taken together is the one that
is replacing. And it's also, not again, given access
once and be done but on a continuous basis assessing
those underlying conditions and taking appropriate
actions to allow or disallow. And that's an
important aspect so that continuous and conditional are
truly key words in that context for secure access. And
to your point about endpoint, I think naturally that
plays a bigger role, I think, in this world, because we
are now so dependent on devices and device posture,
endpoint security plays a big role, this space
that's been heating up for a while. But there are so
many pragmatic solutions, really. There's one for
mobile, one for laptops, one for a container, one for
different workspaces. Just there is no unified solution.
And every vendor is trying their best to kind of put
together a strategy for a holistic response. I think the
space is really something that we need to watch for. A
lot has happened, but a lot still needs to happen to
bring together much better solutions that work across
different operating systems, different types of devices,
different types of the entities that we are actually be
protecting if endpoints are infected.
Michael Coates:
Yeah, I was sort
of visualizing this as we're talking about it. It
seems to me like, you know, we used to be in our office,
our nice, big walled, secure office. And now what
we've done is distributed the workforce out. So
everybody's distributed out everywhere. And so
we're thinking about how do we do distributed
security amongst our employees and business partners,
perhaps. But the other thing that's been happening
that we've been talking about for a few years is the
data also left in the workplace, too, in the data has
spread out the other way into cloud services, both
infrastructure and SaaS. And so now we have everything
used to be here. And this interesting I don't know
what that shape is, two diamonds or two triangles, and
it's really thrown everything on its head. You have
to think about this mobility of everything, your
mobility of your workforce, your mobility of your data.
One of the things we're working towards that Twitter
was even though we had the vast majority of data inside
our data centers, it was still this notion of don't
trust anyone or anything, like build a data first
security policy, so that even if you're an employee
or a service account accessing data, we should have all
of the same security controls as if you were someone
outside in the other world because, otherwise,
you're building your entire posture of security on
the fact that you don't think someone can get in,
and once you're breached on the perimeter, that
it's all over. That security perimeter, squishy
center thing, we know it's not the right path
forward. And I think everything that's happening now
is reinforcing that.
Vijaya Kaza:
Yep. And then, as
you mentioned, because everything is moving to different
places and all of a sudden it opens up the surface for
accepting many different SaaS solutions. How do you
protect and how do you can have visibility into all of
these things? Single Sign on is a big aspect.
Multifactor authentication. You bring things to have a
little bit more handle and control over this
proliferation of SaaS applications is going to be a huge
trend too. Right? And especially in times like this,
when we have a lot of employees, that all companies have
a lot of employees that are being offboarded onboarded,
a lot of activity happening. If you don't have a
CISO or proper way of understanding who has access to
what type of SaaS applications within the organization
becomes a very, very difficult problem to have any kind
of control on that. So that's a huge aspect.
Michael Coates:
Yeah, I agree.
Like this, the single sign on space will be huge. And
that is a big one. I mean, that's the front door.
You've got to take the keys away to the front door.
You have no chance when somebody offboards. The other
thing that I found as we've investigated this
problem space, because we're very much after that
stuff like single sign on is great, authentication, you
have to do that, of course. But authorization to data
access controls after that, especially in the cloud,
what we're seeing is sure you took away the the
central authentication for that user because you
offboard them, but they had authorized their data
already to personal accounts you don't control. So
it's this new backdoor access Zombi access type of
issue that is a result of the flexibility of cloud,
which is a double edged sword, really, like we empower
our teams to work quickly and efficiently, but then
there's these byproducts of mistakes or malice. And
it's a very interesting space where that's what
we're exploring squarely. But it's interesting
to see how that becomes even more prominent in this
world we're discussing.
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah, clearly, you
guys are in the right place at the right time.
There's no doubt about it. That puts you in the
business bucket, for sure. Yeah. You know, going from
there, then looking into you bring up the point of who
has access to what and what kind of authorization. And
nothing is accidental or malicious that naturally then
leads into other types of solutions that traditionally
have been overlooked to some extent by all of the
insider threat type of solutions. That's a big area.
You know, this one is a very controversial one.
Obviously, there are many cultural aspects and
organizational acceptance differences between different
teams. Insider threat is not a straightforward or a slam
dunk solution to deploy for those reasons. But I think
in times like this and the trends that are that
we're seeing right now, I think we ought to at least
give it a serious look, if nothing else, and see what is
in the space? How are things evolving? Obviously, the
traditional DLP very heavy handed approach is not the
right one. And there have been many developments in this
area. Either agent based, agentless, user entity
behavioral type of solutions or even just simple in some
cases, where you are talking about third party vendors
and agents that are doing providing customer support
solutions, even simple tools to do screen recordings and
kind of monitoring from that perspective. So there's
a gamut of solutions in this space. Right. So my
thinking and we've talked about this internally and
also just kind of discussing with several CISOs like
yourself and other friends to see what they're
doing. And it feels like this is an area that needs a
serious look if nothing else, and in some cases probably
appropriate to deploy some solutions.
Michael Coates:
Never a dull
moment in our world, if you feel like you're bored,
just wait 20 minutes and something has changed
dramatically. Very good. One thing that I love to spend
just a few minutes on and all of these conversations.
There's no question that we need more amazing
security people in the field. And there's a wealth
of hungry individuals that are thinking about joining
the fields of security out of school. There's
people, maybe mid career that are thinking of a
transition, which I actually really encourage. I had a
great conversation with someone a year ago who made the
switch from IT into security, pinned me on Twitter a
year later and said success. I was like that. That was
amazing. Just fantastic. But I'd love to ask you,
what are your recommendations for someone who wants to
enter the field of security? And someone earlier asked
also if you recommend a degree, if that's the way to
go or perhaps something else.
Vijaya Kaza:
Yeah, I think,
Michael, you know this really well, the thing with
security is it's really vast and dynamic and
changing, as we've talked about. But also there is
not a single technology or a single thing that you need
to really learn how to do security well, it touches so
many things. Right. Networking, there's cloud,
machine learning, different aspects that you need to be
you need to know a lot about a lot of things. It's
not a single degree, but it's really vast and and
touching many, many things. So this as you said,
there's never a dull moment. So I think the thing
that I would say for people that want to enter this
field is really brace yourself for a lot of learning.
And if you are a person that would like to learn a lot
and wants different types of challenges and gets bored
easily, this is the place to be. There is there's
always something to learn. And even after 20 years of me
being security, I learn every single day something new.
So come on over. Don't be daunted by all of the
complexity that may seem at the surface. But once you
get into it, there are a lot of really, really good
people in the industry that are very willing to help.
That's the other thing that I learned as part of my
transition to CISO, is there's a vast amount of
community that is really helpful, very supportive, and
people are there to help out and provide resources. So
it's a great thing to be with lots of smart people.
Michael Coates:
Yeah, I totally
agree that learn by doing was crucial. You can get a
degree and, you know, that may help give you some
foundation, but, you have to learn so much afterwards,
so I think some people might look at and say, oh, I
don't have a CS degree, how can I possibly get in
there? Like, well, there is a foundation of knowledge
you'll need to learn. But so much of the security
specific stuff you learn on the job. And if you have
that passion to learn and try and build, build some sort
of lab, a virtual lab with hardware or whatever, try to
hack into something, fix it. So much of that was so
meaningful. We had something at Twitter where, actually
that Mozilla too, we would actually hire a lot of people
on a security team from other non security teams because
we found you could make amazing APPSEC engineers by
hiring some of your developers because they already knew
all the the foundations and also how your company works,
which is worth its weight in gold. And then we taught
them the incremental security, the same with I.T. people
into APP security roles.
Vijaya Kaza:
And same thing
that's coming. The API SEC fields as well, like in
people that are very backend engineers and backend
experts that don't necessarily are thinking about
security, but they know that domain so well, from API
perspective in cloud world that, you know, teaching
security to them and maybe making API secure is really
apt for cloud usage. I think that's another factor
as well.
Michael Coates:
Yeah, well,
there's going to be so many disciplines to that one,
that one's going to take off, that's for sure.
Yeah, well, very good. All right. We have one more
question from the audience and we'll=7 wrap on that
one. Let's see here. When you translate, it looks
OK, so it looks like the question is around
transitioning to security roles, is there advantage to
doing that internal and growing inside an organization
or I'll add on to this one or trying to apply it
outside an organization. So what's your thoughts on
that?
Vijaya Kaza:
I'll say in
general. But it is transitioning into security or
anything else if you are trying to make a transition,
your career from one thing to the other. The easiest
paths or ways is to first try intern, because at least
you know the systems, you know the people, you know the
culture. Half of the battle is won already. Now,
it's only one incremental thing, one variable that
you're changing of going into something slightly
different. That's always the path of least
resistance. And once you're successful there with
the people that hopefully are supportive to you and your
career, it makes much more sense to eventually get to
some other company or fight in a different place. But if
you're trying to change all of those at once, that
becomes a really hard fight.
Michael Coates:
Now, I completely
agree that ability to know this person is killing it,
that their job really is powerful, like it's going
to be a slightly different job, but we already know they
deliver so well in what they are doing. That is super
valuable. Well, very good. Thank you so much for taking
the trip up here to Alaska. This is really enjoyable.
Thanks, everyone who joined us for the live webcast
recording. And if you are listening to this on a podcast
or recording on a later date keep an eye on our blog as
we announce other wonderful CISOs for the event. And
we'll go ahead wrap it there. Thanks again so much
Vijaya.
Vijaya Kaza:
Hey, thank you Mike
for having me again, but I really enjoyed the
conversation. Good luck to you and your company, like we
talked about. You guys are definitely in that right
space at the right time. So I look forward to great
things from you guys.
Michael Coates:
Awesome. Awesome.
Thanks so much.
Vijaya Kaza:
Thank you. Take
care.
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